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Transcript

Michael 

So welcome to this week's coffee with Michael This is the best coffee of Michael's session this week. Two legends with me today, Ronnie and Suhail, we're gonna get really deep into it. What it's like being legendary. I'm sure they're gonna have a lot of fun inside to share. As far as that goes. Before we do. We need a little digital marketers toast, Am I right? So everybody, grab a glass, grab a bottle or flask. And join me now. Here's the more conversions more cash, cheap CPMs and lower CACs, higher CTRs, much higher cvrs enabled ad accounts and big bank accounts. upsells downsells, cross sells winning products and repeat sales. And the thing that everybody knows the riches are in the niches and also your email flows. Are you ready to drink?

Ronnie 

Yeah.

Michael 

All right. What's up, guys? We're gonna tell you, you probably already know this, but you two and some of my favorite people in this space.

Ronnie 

In this space Jesus.

Michael 

Yeah, I know about 10 or 15 people. So it's saying a lot. And also, you know, I will tell you to when I made the post that we were going to be talking with you guys this week. It was super popular man. There are a lot of people interested in this conversation. You guys have been your common names. I think. In our little world here. Most people know who you are. And you're always helping out in the comments and things like that. So I just appreciate you guys taking the time with me here to chat. I know. I'd kind of like to know a little bit about the origin story here of you two. Where do you guys come from? I know you guys have been around for ages. You started in the Teespring days at least Ronnie did. I don't know if Suhail was around that time or even Graham?

Suhail 

Yeah. Oh, I was working in the dark is? We?

Ronnie 

Alright, well, do you want the story? I'll give you the star good. Yeah, good. All right. So it was like I launched a website in 2010. And just in that time, like,  Suhail owned  a video store in town. And, you know, you quickly realize who your people are, who you can connect with, and have a decent conversation about what's actually happening out in the world, which at this time, like I was fully into e commerce, like I was super keen on it. You know, the scalability and all that kind of stuff.

Michael 

So, what year was this?

Ronnie 

2010

Michael 

Oh, God, wow. You guys are like dinosaurs in this business?

Ronnie 

Yeah, it's really getting more and more. And he's like a pretty serious Dude, you guys never been a lot because like, I think I've got to get him out of this, the setting of this, you know, worried in work mode. So I invited him out on a date. And we we went and had to hit a golf. And, you know, the rest was history. But that was that was a moment that we sort of started really hanging out. We'd catch up for coffee every morning and just like talk ideas and all that kind of stuff. So we quickly like my my bambino brands, which was working on at the time. Yeah, it had a great period of growth, but then it fell over and then got to us like that's how I got into business doing cheap website designs started up as usual, me dicking around him doing all the work. I was trying to find the opportunity to get what's actually going to make us money because $120,000 in debt, because of all the money expenditure into the business and I just didn't know how to run ads. That's the damage Facebook can do if you're not going to turn the ads off with a decent CPA, but in that playing around I stumbled across across Teespring. And it's just crazy what what sort of money they're claiming to do. You know if it's too good to be true, you sort of you don't want to do it. This was all like we had a little office at the Becker civic video, which is like this dungeons similar to the room I'm in right now. No windows. It's not like lollies and rats. And we can take computers side by side. And probably arguing just as much as we argued today as well. But anyway, we very quickly jumped onto this thing. I launched a shirt to a group in Australia that just had a law passed against them, and they weren't happy about it. Put it up first campaign like I think it was three weeks in after a few bits of testing. Sold 125 on that first campaign. We're like, Okay, cool. Like, is this something

Michael 

25 shirts or $125,000

Ronnie 

125 shirts.

Michael 

You know, you hear war stories from that time period. I mean, it just sounds like you could print cash back then. The ads work. Nobody had seen the products before. So yeah, you know, it's not too much of a stretch.

Michael 

No, well, that was stories coming. So we ran rerun that we redesigned it and did 360 in the next week. And the following week did about the same sort of numbers. And then it's sort of like went quiet for a few weeks. And then we jumped on these age campaigns. And we'd launched about five, and we woke up the next morning, we made about 1000 bucks off just like, just get to sleep. And right now we're like, holy crap, because then we're like, we've got a night stuff. Yeah, getting all the designs done across the 30 days. And we did that. And within three weeks, we've done over $300,000 on campaigns. It just went I went nuts. Yeah, so that was our first instance. Then I got married. We went away for a couple months, not him and I because we were married. We got married in Bali. So we all went through there. But when we got back that clamped down on those age campaigns, and are you saying age campaigns?

Michael 

Explain that

Michael 

We had 30 designs, right? And said made limited edition made in 1963. Built to Last Got it? Right, or something like that, like we were targeting Australia hadn't been done at the time. Anyway, um, Facebook clamped down on it while we were away. They're like, you can't target by age anymore. Like what? Anyway, we had everything translated into German. Like everything ad copy, like the text on the shirt, and then we went over onto fab, really? And we did stupid money over there is like $100,000 in 10 days.

Michael 

Fiberly?

Ronnie 

Yeah, it was fiberly. So fiberly was bought out by Teespring. I think it must be Danish.

Michael 

So yeah, man, let's recap a little bit. So you guys met in 2010? Suhail was working at a video store. You are $120,000 in debt. Right? You are all in on the econ thing. I'm curious what sold you on ecom in 2010.

Michael 

Scalability, but always on the tools. I had the tools like, I'm a carpenter by trade, but always sick of we just had a new son. And I was leaving at like 4:30 in the morning. And I'll get home at like, five 5:30 at night. And he'd be up for about half an hour that I get to see him and then we put him down and I wouldn't see him again until like, that was that was the day I was like, This is not the life I want. And I wasn't super motivated. Anyway, I was driving better hour and a half to work every day. So there's all these times that I was like, This is not how I envisioned my life would go. And the ecommerce thing I remember sitting in we got our first computer in 1995. And I remember sitting there with my brother and going nice if we could make $1 from everyone online. We'd be killing it just do that. But that was sort of like there's always something there that I wanted to get into digital marketing. And we were just laying there my wife and I in bed one morning, not touching each other as usual. And she mentioned she scrolling through this flash sales website. And it said and she was like looking for baby maternity stuff. She said if I get something like this for baby for baby stuff, I'd never leave. And that was what all I needed. Was that a little light ball and I was out of bed. I went and research for solid three hours to convince myself that was a great idea.

Michael 

Little did she know, she just started a business.

Ronnie 

Little did she know that I was going to be signing a $35,000 website contract within the week.

Michael 

Oh man. Wow.

Ronnie 

And this is like that. I think 2010 was when Shopify launched.

Michael 

I was about to say what what did even launch a store on back then?

Michael 

I don't even know now, it wasn't WordPress. But I remember everything had to be built like the countdown time. I had sale windows that I'd lost forget anywhere from three days to two weeks. Now it was a lot of work like I was in I was doing it all by myself.

Michael 

But you went into debt and this whole venture right?

Ronnie 

Yeah.

Michael 

So correct, a maybe false assumption A lot of us have. I seriously have the impression, because you know, I wasn't back there running ads back then. I seriously had the impression that back then you could you could light up an ad for anything, and it would sell like money get deposited in your bank account. And it was like a magical time to live. But you went into significant debt. It sounds like trying to get this.

Michael 

So well, I must have had my bank account details wrong because it wasn't coming in the mine. Yeah, I can't remember the details of how I was in running ads back then. Or what the setups were I know that a lot of that money was owed to suppliers and debt collectors and all that kind of stuff. But there's a line in the sand to I never wanted to go bankrupt. I wanted to pay back the people that have put trust in me. So I just I had to shuffle like I did. I bought enough time between then and finding something that actually pay these guys back. That was all like, I'll go to the credit card shuffle. So I gave him interest free period on these credit cards to the next interest rate period. Yeah, aiming just to get the lowest rate. I was up to my eyeballs in serious debt. I had debt collectors on the phone all day every day. So house sitting beside me. A good day it was his incessant like, it would stop maybe 7:30 o'clock at night. So even to this day when I say no caller ID.

Michael 

Man. That sounds like that's stressful.

Ronnie 

It was but I think it's um, it also forged my resilience to like, I saw how close to the wire I could go. It's not good for my wife. She's like, these guys throw it security. It's like, the more insecure so it was. Yeah, it was an interesting period. But hey, like we hit those shirts, because I held to that belief and I'm a huge believer in mindset. I had to believe that something was coming and that it was going to generate so is crazy.

Michael 

So the shirts, okay, so you're in massive debt because of this business. Your wife started. You've accumulated quite a bit of debt, you meet Suhail, I assume you tell Suhail, like, hey, come start a business with me. He doesn't know about the debt

Michael 

I went a little bit more gentle than that. Like it took some time.

Suhail 

I was pretty sus about Ronnie back in those days, to be honest. And my wife wasn't too happy with us hanging out every morning having coffee. They I think they got a bit jealous. I think we were hanging out on weekends and stuff. And we went to lock an open home for a prize home. And we looked, I think Ron, as he does, you know, found this website on flipper, cheap website designs. That was the domain now we thought, Oh, this seems like a great idea. Let's go and build some cheap websites. And I've got a background in IT. So that was sort of how we started getting into business together, you know, it was pretty low cost startup. He ranked pretty well, and you know, had had clients and stuff. So for us, that was a way to start generating, you know, for Ron, it was a way to generate some cash flow for his, you know, to try and get his debt under control. And I guess for me, like, I just had a bit of time up my sleeve because my video store DVD store, think blockbuster was doing sort of Okay, back then. And you know, I had time up my sleeve. So that was the start of business for us, I guess. And it went from there.

Michael 

I love hearing the I don't know, you two in particular. There's not that many like partnerships out there. And I actually kind of want to get to that here in a little bit. I want to get distracted with the right now. But it's unique that you two has been doing this together for so long. And I actually think that's super cool. Personally, I feel like I'm somebody that works better with a teammate than I do solo. Well, it's, it's, it's a challenging thing to not only find kind of the right person that where you have strengths that complement it, but you can also share workload and all that kind of stuff and you have the time and everything else. But anyway, let's, let's get to that in a minute. So you get on Teespring right. So you to meet, you buy a website on Flippa. I'm sure there's more to this story. You're doing websites for a while Eventually though, you get on Teespring. You hit some shirts. And it sounds like in the span of what three or four weeks, you go from selling 100 shirts to doing a few 100,000 Is that about right?

Ronnie 

It wasn't a few 100,000 shirts it was a few $100,000. I think our all time on Teespring is like 130,000, which works out pretty well. 1.9 million on Teespring over that time

Michael 

130,000 shirts. So what timeframe did you sell those shirts in?

Ronnie 

I think it was a couple of years that were on Teespring. But we'd also like in that same time we were on Fiberly, I think there was about another 50,000 shirts we did in Europe, I can't remember the exact fee on that. That may be high. But then that was about the time that we started playing around with ShineOn on to back like 1.0 when they had the 3d precious metal jewelry, that kind of stuff. And that sold pretty well. But that's where my interest started. Really getting into the jewelry top type stuff.

Michael 

So you went straight from Teespring into ShineOn?

Ronnie 

Yeah, it was ShineOn on before I got into Shopify. So. So I keep saying I all the time, I always write in it. But it's always like, just remember it is we there's only one like we had this, like I don't even know how long that was for maybe six months, a couple years ago. Now it's sort of like a reset. And then just just neither is that the security of that business partner anymore. realize how important it was to have someone that you can trust, you know, particularly with with workloads, like we both go through periods where one might be motivated, and the other one's not so and vice versa. So it's like, you know, I don't know what the how the last six weeks of being on flat out having attained I've been locked in a room. And like got a bit of 11 o'clock waking up at three. So I've just like probably hustling harder than I ever have in my life. First of all, because I want to do a good job of this first course and whatnot. So yeah, it was Teespring. And then it was in the ShineOn. I've got a snapshot on the on the article written on store hacks about you know, that period of you know, what it looked like saying? It gave us so much more margin in the products. And we're doing the exact same style of selling. So it just made sense that we pension into selling something that made money.

Michael 

Look, you've been around doing this for a long time. I mean, I think, correct me if I'm wrong here. I mean, if I had to throw a dart at when you could really do get deep in this digital marketing stuff in it, it probably started to build momentum is probably like 2005 ish, I would think. So you're only looking at about 15 years in this industry solid years, maybe even less than that. I mean, I know, don't get me wrong, I know that. I know that there were people making some good money online before that. But they were they were few and far between, you know, and you've been around for two thirds of that period of time. So I'm curious, you know, from your perspective, was it easier back then than it is now? how's the market change?

Ronnie 

I honestly don't think it is any easier. There's moments where it definitely feels harder. But I think that's when you're in the moment as well. Like, I remember, you know, back with when we first started Teespring after those age campaigns, like we just were trying to get into niches and we just couldn't do it. Like we were scratching our heads and say this is the first instance where we had an opportunity to teach as well. At a time when we felt like we couldn't even sell water to a thirsty man is like, why would we be? Why would we be flying to London, all expenses tied to have this conference and be like, one of the speakers that we just didn't marry up. So it was a struggle back then. As much as it can be today. But it's all mindset, like, I'm going to keep pulling back to mindset because 100% I believe a positive mindset sets us up for so much more opportunity than you know, being negative and stuck in a rut. So if I if I have a positive mindset, and I go, you know what, I'm going to find this winner, I know it's there. Where is it? Like it puts those steps in place where you actually get on your laptop and you start looking for it. Whereas if you've got a negative mindset go, I'm not going to so I'm you know, why would I even bother but you're not taking the steps that push you further along the path to making that eventual windfall.

Michael 

Dude, I'm totally with you on that. I feel like the only limitation in this video This is between your ears, right? It's like, it's kind of like the what goes on up here really has a ton to do with your success or failure in this particular business. But I'm curious, like, have you ever thought about like the psychology there? Like, what? What do you think that is? You know, because I, you know, you hear like, there's kind of the the books about the attraction and all that I don't really think it's added, it feels like when you, when you mentally prepare yourself for success. It's almost like you create this, like conscious bias where it's like you, you suddenly start to see opportunity. And, like, I think that's something that's going on there. But what do you think that is?

Ronnie 

I think you're spot on. Like, it's, it's like when you go and buy a red car, right? Like, as soon as you buy red car, there's red, red cars everywhere, exactly the same sort of thing. It's like, as soon as you start spotting opportunities, they start popping up everywhere. And welcome to ecommerce like there's there's no shortage of freaking opportunities out there. Keep those blinkers on.

Michael 

Yeah, you're right, though. It's like, it's like you prime your mind for that kind of stuff. I'm with you, man. Because I'm, I've been practicing a thing, I'm not sure I'm ready to quite share it with everybody. But I, I've been practicing this thing where I tried to kind of tell myself, I have a certain thing I tell myself every morning, that kind of positions me for success, or at least what I think is success. But it feels like even just in saying that, like in this little phrase, I tell myself, it feels empowering. in a weird way. It's like, I don't know what it is. It's not, it's not woowoo, it's just something inside of me just kind of feels like it. It dials up a little bit. I don't really know what it is. But I'm totally with you that mindset, setting your intention, priming your mind to succeed is a big part of this thought for sure.

Ronnie 

And I read a book a while back called breaking the habit of being you by Dr. Joe dispenza. In my college like it, it, it really is showing you the way of how to get through anything and achieve what you want. Like. And this is the power of like thinking about abundance and success and all that kind of stuff. It was, it's about meditation. So you would, you know, in this lead to when we had $730,000 plus in three weeks, like I was meditating every day for half an hour, like in the morning as soon as I'd wake up. So you're still in that, you know, like semi conscious state, you can believe that you're in that strange state. So it's easy to believe what you're thinking about.

Ronnie 

That book is so good. But you go through this process of you declare, like, what is it what these traits were because I knew I was wasting so much time just like scrolling through Facebook. And like, I knew I had to focus and get on track. And just like by doing this process of, you know, the water rising technique where you're getting yourself rotten design, declaring that the bad traits that you're trying to get rid of, and the bad traits was like anxiety, stress, frustration, all those sorts of things. And then the next part is like, you're talking to your subconscious through it all. And then you get to this point where it's like you're, you're physically thinking about living that success that you're trying to achieve. And for whatever reason, part of it. And I'm not a huge like a super materialistic person, I've got everything that I want, except this white Lamborghini that kept on popping up in this meditation.

Ronnie 

I'm dreaming again, that white Lamborghini at the car dealership with my son in the past, just like the ginger cow, but that was the thing that I just kept on going to sec. But what that led me to was that that abundance mentality led me to thinking like that anything was possible. That is this success was coming. I still feel it. I know success is coming. I don't know when I don't know how, but I'm going to chase it down. But I'm not going to leave any stone unturned. There. It's just the power of positivity, dude. I freaking love it. I can't get enough of it.

Michael 

Well, there's also something too, that's just empowering in taking back control. You know, like, I read a book called Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl. He's the guy that went through the Holocaust and he became a psychiatrist. And anyway, he talked about how In the concentration camps, he could have literally everything taken away from him. Everything I mean, his identity, you stripped down to a number, his family was taken away, all of his clothes were taken away any of his personal possessions. Literally, he became a number, everything was taken away from him. But he realized the one thing he could, the one thing he still had possession over was his response to the abuse. That was one thing that they literally could not take away. It was his own agency, and his own will. And there's, but there's something in that, that I feel like is connected to this mindset thing, right? It's something about taking control over your situation. It's something about taking control over the direction, you want to go it something about, like you said, I can't remember what they're called self declarations or something. I can't remember what they're called. Proclamations there you go. There's just, it's like, it's priming your attitude and your mind for how you're gonna respond to the world as you move through it on that day, you know, and it's just, it's super powerful. Now, you said something, though, and I want to ask you about this. You literally just said, and I'm gonna frame this up. So Dude, you just told us how you made did over a million dollars in revenue on Teespring. And you also just mentioned how you did basically three quarters of a million dollars on shine on in three weeks? And then in the same kind of flow? You go. But I know success is out there. And it's coming. Right. And and there are a lot of people, I think that maybe heard that. And they were like, what, because like they would love to just have a nibble of that kind of success. And I'm just curious what your thinking is on that. How do you respond to that?

Ronnie 

I think it's that financial freedom at the end of the day, like it's fantastic making that sort of money. And you know, that two periods that we've done quite well. I mean, we've had other Shopify stores that have crushed it in between as well. Yeah, I think we've sold across all their stores about 30,000 pieces of jewelry. Over the years. I sneaked all that in 500,000, a couple months. But what how do I feel about that? Like, I think we're still thinking that, personally, I think I'm still thinking smaller. I'm stuck in like, in this world that's like, how do I make serious moves? And you look to people like Keegan and Cory rush, and they're doing like three and a half million dollars a month.

Ronnie 

Literally the Mike Tyson's of our industry. And you go, what is it about their business that has allowed them just to level up? Remember, I'm not sure if you'd like me saying this, but you guys, I can't remember. Like, he wasn't gloating about it. Like we chat all the time. And I have a bunch of dudes that I'm regularly in contact with. And he says like "you guys I can't remember the last day that didn't make 10,000 grand profit in one day." He doesn't remeber! Alright, big dog. So, but yeah, I've got a number that I want to reach. And once I'm there, I want to relax. And I want to go you know what this is me. Like, I'm content, I can travel the world and I want with who I want, whenever I want with who I want in my family, obviously. But it just gives you a choice. Once you hit that number, it gives you a choice, I think, and I met a very successful businessman in Australia, he goes, Ronnie, put a number, put a number on it and drew a line in the sand. Because if you don't do that, when you do start becoming successful, it become a drug and you'll just keep chasing more and more and more, and you'll never be happy.

Michael 

That's probably good advice, dude. You know, one of the big misperceptions I have when I got into business was just that. I struggled for a little bit like in the early stages, like a long time ago, where I was like, I didn't want to get into it because I was greedy, but I definitely wanted money. And I was like, what is going on there? You know what I mean? Because it's like, I'm, I didn't really want I don't have any aspirations for like the Lambo or any of that. And I was like, well, there's, there's some pieces of this where business is like a game to me, like in the money or points and I kind of just like putting points on the board, there's some piece of it that is that is like that. But there's this other piece of it, where it's like money does kind of equal freedom, because it equals time freedom, right? It equals freedom to be able to kind of like do what you want. It equals to some level equals freedom from stress, because like you're, you're shielded from risk in a lot of ways when you have a really good bank account. I mean, like if you have a health crisis or something happens. So anyways, like that was kind of some of my motivations in the beginning, but I think that that's p retty good advice, dude to like try to pick a number, figure out what the number is do some soul searching draw a line in the sand and then relax or coast after that because I could easily see how this becomes a hamster wheel.

Suhail 

A lot of the problem with being around for so long, you know, we have we know all these people that have done massive numbers, so that line can keep moving. Like Ron's different to me personally, but my level of success is, and I'm not even, like, big on materialistic stuff in dollars, either. But it's, it's, you know, three and a half million a month, or 100,000 in a day. Like, I don't think I can quit to keep pushing these numbers. I know, three and a half million a month, probably like that's gonna take a lot of work, but to sell $100,000 worth of jewelry a day, like, you know, that's that's kind of, in the back of my mind, something that once we keep that, like, I'll know that we've, you know, we've done pretty well. There's always a moving line. But yeah.

Michael 

I will tell you this dude, I did 92k a day and did not scratch the itch at all. Like that happened, and I was just I was revved up, man.

Ronnie 

And then it comes January 1 thing like, What?

Michael 

It is true, like, you get spoiled on q4, and you go right into q1, and it can be kind of painful. Yeah. So you know, something else. I just want to talk about real quick on the subject of money is one of the reasons I like doing the interviews. I you know, I've known you guys for a long time, I've done a bunch of these other people. But like even Keegan, he normalizes the success a little bit, it becomes human. You know what I mean? Like, so often? The, what do you want to call it like the heroes of whatever it is you're pursuing, they're out there. They're like in the ether, and you can't talk to them, you can't touch them. They're like, they're, they're just what exists of them your imagination, you know what I mean? But like, when you talk to Keegan or you guys, or somebody else, you realize they're just ever their frickin normal people, man, I mean, they get sick, they get stressed out, they have to use the bathroom and eat food, you know what I mean? It's like a totally normalizes the success. And it really you like start to realize, like, they're not superhuman. And you can probably tap into what they have, and reach the same levels,

Ronnie 

you know, when it comes down to, I think, have nailed it with this. yet to be 100% proven, but it's expectations. Like when you operate every day, with the intent of making $1,000 that day, your expectation level is, the amount of work that takes me to do this money is this. And you get used to that figure. And that's your expectation, and that's your default that you keep going back to. Whereas if you start operating at like, $10,000 a day, and you go, right, these are what I do every day, these are the things that make me $10,000 consistently. It's, it's where you're at, if you're making a million dollars a day, or you know, a week or month or whatever, the same thing applies, like you've got your systems in place, like, your mindset is that that's the money that you're gonna be making. You just get used to it. And it's just, it's getting your head around that I think,

Michael 

well, and once it's not special anymore, it's like gold just levels up.

Ronnie 

So what do I do today? buy another G wagon?

Michael 

Yeah. So Alright, so I think we kind of got the origin story here, I want to talk a little bit about. So I know you got store hacks, and we got some other stuff we can get into. But before we do, torturing everybody here, I want to talk about like, how do you guys practically make the partnership work? Like how does the delegation of the workload hat? Like, how do you do all that? Because there are people from time to time they try to do this with business partners, and you hear very opposite, what's the word you're very different advice on this subject. Some people say avoid it like the plague, because it's just a lawsuit in the waiting. And other people say it can be the best thing as long as you click it up. Right? So I'm just I'm curious about that. Man. How do you make this work?

Ronnie 

I think it takes more on Suhail's part to put up with it than mine.

Ronnie 

I think a lot of it comes down to trust expectation. I know my mindset is that you know, for it to be successful, you need to pull your weight. So it's like what what does that look like? How do I keep this guy happy? Because I could supply so much value on who he is as a person like what he provides in the business. You know, as I said earlier, I talked about a lot, you know, I, I, I, me, me, me, but on Christmas it was us like, without Suhail those phrases that were on those pieces, you know, they wouldn't exist. So it's like, how do we make it work? It's like, every day we get on messenger and go Hey Suhail, what do you think of this idea? He's like, Oh, that's bad. And, and then we get like what we have is things. So there's a lot of squabbling and carry on. But I think at the end of the day, we have the faith that we are in control. And we're going to get, I guess, to the end goal that we're working on. Like we both want the same thing. We both want happy, healthy families with financial security.

Michael 

I mean, do you guys like, hang out on the weekends and stuff too? Are you guys like friends? Are you more business partners?

Ronnie 

Just business partners, like we occasionally hang out. Now it's just yeah, if we will celebrate wins and stuff and remain special. Do we hang out? No, because we've got families that we have to run around after.

Suhail 

I think, you know, like, to be honest, like, we got pretty lucky, just personalities that met and got on well. And then also, like you said, at the start complementary skill sets, you know, there's certain things that Ron's really good at that are not and vice versa. And, yeah, it's your right, like, it can be something that's really difficult to navigate business partnerships. But I think, right from the start, we went through some pretty, we've been through the whole range of emotions and personal circumstances and stuff like that. We've always been there to support each other through that. And I think, yeah, it's, it's really set us up now, where we both know what our roles are. Because we've been together for so long, like, definitely, in the early days, it was a feeling out process, like who's good at what. But now, it just sort of you know, that delegation does really need to happen, because we've known our roles in this business for, for so long, we both know what each other is good at. And, and now, it just works. You know, there are periods where either one of us lose a little bit of motivation for a while, and we're both, you know, we respect that, because sometimes you just can;t be on every day of the week, 365 days a year. So, yeah, a lot of patience comes in to having a business partner, but a lot of understanding people's personal circumstances. But I think probably the biggest thing that keeps us going is our goals are still pretty well aligned. And yet, complementary skill sets that sort of keep us on track and keep the machine going and guess.

Michael 

So how do you divide the work? Like, who does what he split it up? Like, does Ronnie do the ad and you do the product research? Do you shuffle around? Like, how do you do all that?

Suhail 

Well, I sort of have a Yeah, I mean, so you know, we basically and this, this goes back to, you know, Keegan and Cory like they they were mentors in the early days and super blessed to, you know, to have that opportunity.

Suhail 

Yeah, well, you know, this was back in the day when Teespring had like a mentor program. And somehow, you know, we got fortunate enough to be paired up with those guys. And you know, that they're all about systems and process. So, you know, for the past four or five years, we've just been running the same process. And when things go a bit quiet, it's because we've, we've veered off that process. And a lot of that just revolves around a weekly system where we do certain activities on certain days. And we both do those activities, I might do a bit more of certain activities, and Ron might do a bit more other activities. But by the end of or by certain days of each week, we have certain tasks that need to be finished, and we just keep doing it.

Michael 

So are you saying like, like, every day, you've got like, a to do list and you just tag team the to do list? Is that kind of what it looks like?

Suhail 

Yeah, at a high level, you know, it's not granular, but it's kind of like, okay, by every Wednesday, we're gonna have 30 new designs sitting there, you know, our VA will have it in a list. Here's the URL for it. Here's the, you know, whatever information we need, whatever pixels on it, and we'll just go through the list and one by one, we'll check it off, as we're checking it off, you know, to the Google Sheet or on Trello depending what we're working on. Whether I'm doing it or Ron's doing it, you know, it just gets checked off and it's done sort of thing. So, yeah.

Michael 

What would you say is like the, so it sounds like you do kind of switch hit on the tasks. So I'd imagine you know, you're you'll both jump in from time to time to do the research, or you'll both do the ads or whatever, correct me if I'm wrong. Yeah. So what would you say is like the most? Like benefit? Like, you know, if there's somebody out there listening to this that's in a partnership? Like, I'm curious like, what advice would you give them but what's what's like the most the best, like system or process you could advise them to build? I'm curious about that.

Ronnie 

I don't know print on demand, specifically in terms of business processes, or in terms of like the partnership itself?

Michael 

I don't know, man, answer that.

Ronnie 

We've never had really, really any contractual obligation, like when you know, we didn't, I still don't think we've got a partnership agreement that explicitly says, This is what he is to do. This is what I am to do. Because again, Suhail is incredibly intelligent when it comes to phrase building. Like, I'm not real good at retaining lengthy information. And these, like, some of these phrases are so long, and there's so many variations. I'm like, how can I put these together, which is why, like, we've got that quick development ship to wile away, which I've put in this course is like, you've got the money maker, which is that first section of the thing. So this is this is like off on a tangent, but like, it's chunking it down, I guess. And it's sort of like what you do within the business. So a lot of it is house phrase building on more design, like style, like short, sharp quotes, with a decent, like a clear design that you can easily see where it's the house is much more to that phrase based where it's a lot more sentimental, his as he is so sappy, just. It's ridiculous. I think, well, it does if they cry they buy, right. So like in that, in that case, like he's obviously doing much more of the legwork when it comes to coming up with ideas for jewelry. So it'll be that once that's ready, I'll be like, you know, like he said, that shape, I'll have the sheet there ready to go and just punch out all these ads. So in terms of delegation, again, it's not something that we've explicitly said, This is what you do, this is what I do. It's just that it's a symbiotic relationship.

Michael 

It sounds super organic.

Suhail 

Yeah. But I think Sorry, just to jump in quickly, like to get back to like, the actual question. I think a lot of our system and process and how this is evolved is come back from early Teespring days, again, with mentoring and a big thing that, you know, though they were about was launches per day, or launches per week. So if you're in a business partnership, and you're sort of looking to get on the same page, that's sort of where we base everything off. It's kind of like, How much money do you want to make? How many launches a week? Do you need to hit that? And then everything? How do we get to that number? So back when we were doing Teespring, and we had, you know, we hired our team, a local team to do stuff, you know, we're hitting 100 launches per week, because back in those days, it was literally, the more launches, you get up, I guess, it still applies these days, the more you get up, the more chance you've got getting that success. You know, there's obviously, there's a balance, obviously, that you can't just be putting up any old crap and expecting it to win. But there's a balance between quality and quantity. You know, we still have to find, you know, that that changes all the time, I guess, like that sweet spot changes all the time. But if you knew in a in a business partnership or finding your way, I think that's the goal that you need to work on. What's the money figure? And then how does that translate? You know, again, he can't it's not an equation, but how many launches per week do we need to get up to achieve that number? And then how many ideas do we need to be shortlisting to get to that number, you know, and one day, we need to be doing all these activities to get it done on the day? So system wise, you know, everything back in the day, like started systematically, we would only launch ads on Wednesday. And again, this was a rush brothers saying, you know, 8am on Wednesday was the sweet spot to get fit. So we would launch 50 or 100 different campaigns with multiple ad sets at 8am every Wednesday, us time, central time. That's changed a bit for us now, because we'll watch on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday is typically, you know, scaling, scaling and cutting, you know, days after that. But I mean, that gives you a bit of an idea of the system that just sort of organically came about. But it all comes about by having that one target in mind for each week. And how do we get to that number of how many new designs we need to get up,

Michael 

dude, I love that. I love how you. So first of all, you're picking a goal, and you're reverse engineering how to get there. But I feel like What magic is, is what you focus on, right? Because if you if you, if you focus on the revenue number, like with tunnel vision, like there's nothing you can do to will your revenue up, right? Like no matter how bad you want revenue, if you're not also taking appropriate action, revenue does not move. So I love how you like you looked at the actions you can take, and you identified the most important one to focus on, which was number of tests. And I wholeheartedly agree with this, the more often you get it back, you're going to increase your chances of hitting a home run. Right? So the more tests you do, and I also like I said, it's not just quantity, it's it's quality. So let's like the more quality tests you do, over a long period of time, will increase your chances of hitting your revenue goals. I freaking love that dude. So, um, let's get into storehacks a little bit. So when did storehacks start.

Ronnie 

2019. So I wanted to like diversify. I'm always interested in diversification, right? Like, much as I am not risk adverse. I do like different sources of income. Anyway, I've started looking at doing this agency course I started, like I did all the trainers, but $10,000 on this course. And got in there. And I was like, right, January 15 is the day I'm starting cold calling people to start running ads to them. January 14, I lost my ad account, not my ad account, my personal Facebook account, everything was gone. I could not get into anything. I was like, What? I could not speak to anyone.  Anyway, I was like, Well, if that's the case, and it was a bad like copyright infringement that I'd made in 2014 when we first started with Teespring. And back then it was about the education was find a sports team and run shirts for that sports team. So one of them was Florida Gators shirt, there's a picture of their logo in the state of California. And the other one was a Breaking Bad quote, it was a Breaking Bad quote that where I came on stuck and just said I am the danger with a silhouette of you know, is it was barely recognizable of Walter watts face. Was a two years, three years later, four years later, I get these notifications on Facebook, copyright infringement has been taken down. Because this company can't afford to have been out day trawling through these archives, anyway, lost the account. The next day, I was like, screw this, I need to do something to keep the wheels turning whatever. So I started the blog. And I think that was the period when Suhail nd I must have been had that split. But it was I was I wanted to give back to the community. I didn't know how this blog would make money. But I just wanted to get all this information that I learned over the years down, you know, into this world, where there's so much misinformation and and there's still is. like I'm competing, like in the searches and stuff, my articles that are experienced based content, and cover like the systems and processes within.

Ronnie 

Like I sound like I'm blowing my own trumpet until a point I am because it comes from being in the trenches doing it as opposed to company blogs that writing on the same topic. That's all theory base that this is this I've copy and pasted a bit from here. I've just reworded that, like they don't know what it is to do that. So for instance, if I'm doing a review on a company like shine on, custom cat, whatever it may be, I can go, Well, this is what the products that we have. So this is what I like about this launch. And this flow process is great. This is where it falls down. I hate that thing, like so it's like you're doing it from a place of having been there and having results and whatnot to back up those content. So I just say I just deep dive into, you know, learning all about SEO, article writing, all that kind of stuff. You know, it sits about 15,000 pageviews a month, and I'm trying to build that up and put a lot more focus into it now because I am quite proud of it because it's like it's it's almost like I can liken it to carpentry. It's something I've built from the ground up, I left from, you know, reading what that plan is, and just like executing on just writing articles, connecting with people and Stuff like that. So, but that was like full on for like eight or nine months where I was like, full time just writing articles and going through the whole SEO process but, and like a lot of this stuff's slowly being updated. I put that case study on there, like, it's a good resource for me to go. Right. This is work with his content. And the case study was a full on deep dive into how we did $732,000.

Michael 

Yeah, let's talk about that for a minute. Because it's so you went on this run? 732,000 whatever, in three weeks? No, less than three weeks on it. Anyway.

Michael 

So you went on this big kind of run big revenue, push and then you you did. By the way, if nobody's read this article, you need to go check it out. It's on store hacks calm. There's a Ronnie wrote up on basically like a tutorial or a case study on how he did this. And he gets into the the advertising methods used and everything else that's super valuable. But let's, let's shift gears for a minute and actually talk about that. So tell me about this. This run that you went on last q4, what? How many tests did it take to kind of find your winner? Tell us about the scaling process? Share that with us a little bit.

Ronnie 

So thick in the shade, like looking back over it? Like I think we did at least 80 launches in the space like so apparently, Aussie election tampering is a thing in the United States, because for two months, like leading into those elections, we've lost all our business managers, we have no way to run ads. And like, why we we haven't done it, like the customer feedback rating on pages or like five, like our ad accounts that your belly, like not an ad on it, like disapproved. Anyway, we got them back straight up that election. And we just went hard on launches. Like we had a bunch that have been designed up. I think it was like at a few weeks that we've launched. And then we were seeing results that we had to change also how to change the pace like he was scaling pretty well. He had a few pieces that were doing, like 50 to 100 a day, if not more, correct me if I'm wrong. So how, and one piece was really starting to heat up and then had to change it. And just with that change it just it couldn't get it back. Anyway, I was like looking at us. Like, I think these guys need some humor. And this is where that like I talked about that hunting piece that I showed in that article. But that's the viral piece that drove a lot of sales.

Michael 

That viral piece. Right? Is that revealed in the article? Yeah. So there's a picture of it and everything.

Ronnie 

Yeah, there's a picture of it and everything.

Michael 

People are really wanting that link here. I think.

Ronnie 

We're seeing a different trend. Like that's coming out of ShineOn off the back of that stuff.

Michael 

So typically, I would tell people to kind of avoid humor because humor seemed like something I work on T shirts and mugs. And I always tell people stick to like kind of the jewelry right? Stick to the sentimental all that kind of stuff. When I found out what your product was, I was like whoa, I was like to every rule there is kind of an exception. I'm just how did you get on to like, hey, let's try humor here and just see if it works like how did you find yourself in that situation?

Ronnie 

As internet marketers out job is to stop people scrolling read and buy and have those actions as close to pot together as possible. And it was why humor? Why do we go that route? But I I firmly believed that I was like no one is doing this like I think there's a huge opportunity here with the elements of this niche that could you know, it is a test right? You go I'm gonna do that. I think that's funny. You know, I've chased a lot of talent saying some fun time, but nothing is but he was the best by far like, who would buy that for their partner? But seriously, like in that, like it's such a perfect gift. Like you think about that, like this dude is seen in his face. He absolutely lives. He lives and breathes hunting. He loves hunting. Like he can not eat enough meat. He's got venison in that freezer for marks. He buys this piece because it's funny and he's always teasing his wife. Right? It's always like having little shots there and whatever.

Ronnie 

Anyway, so I knew these guys had a sense of him or I knew a portion of them would Anyway, but what is perfect about this gift is this guy's bought this jewelry, which is a box like the woman knows that she's getting jewelry for Christmas as a gift. It's you know the perfect size. You know? She knows she's getting something special.

Ronnie 

But what it does is it creates an emotional, and memorable moment. Like no amount of sappiness on a card because we are so like when we gifted something, birthdays, anniversaries, Christmas, it's always a heartfelt message like this some humor, like you do see those funny cards. But more often than not, it's that stuff that is sappy that, you know, you read it once you go. That's nice. And you chuck it in the drawer. Thanks, honey. But this, it's like you create a moment that these guys are remembering. For years. Not if not forever. But every time she opens up box to look at this pace. She's She's never gonna forget. Yeah. Yeah, sorry. But this is I guess the going back to the question, how did we get into under humor? And the answer is testing and having like, the spreadsheets and working out these quotes and stuff, and, you know, backwards and forwards like So how am I like, we'd got that designed up pretty quick. I did it myself. You know, since it's a house like they put something together that's funny for these guys. Suhail worked his magic and came back with that.

Michael 

Yeah, I mean, look, man, I'll tell you I'm not sure that is a piece I would have ran for various reasons. And you know, also for anybody in the chat, I'm not caught up on the chat. I apologize if anybody's like going and looking at the thing or offended. But at the same time, there's education here to be gained. I mean, what what they did was they stuck to marketing fundamentals here. Right. So you guys thought like, how do I stick out in the marketplace? Everybody's doing sappy stuff. Everybody's getting sentimental stuff? Like, what do I need to do to stop people in the feed? Make them pause? Make them read it? Also, how do we get that that tap into that emotion? make them laugh, whatever, make them cry? In this case, you know, it was you were playing this humor angle. And also, I can tell you kind of really thought it through. It did create a I can see how to create a memorable moment. I mean, it would take it would likely take a husband with a wife. They can both laugh at that. And I don't know how many of them there are out there. But you found a lot of them. Let's just put it out. So I don't know, man, I think it's super interesting. You got that to work. When I saw I was like, Whoa, I just couldn't believe that's what took off for you guys.

Ronnie 

And it took off like it was shaved the first day it sold two, the next day was like 14 and the next day was like 124. Like that that was the ramp up.

Michael 

So what was your highest day?

Ronnie 

The highest day on that. So auto because we're both we're on the shine on platform. And this was a question that I was saying yesterday, ShineOn platform versus Shopify store. We have both. So our sappy stuff. That's still like we said, how's he done the angle that is still steady, but it's it's niche based, and it's memorable. So that's all on Shopify, right, and now are almost identical in terms of what they were doing at Christmas. So half and half, you know, and I can't say one converts better than the other, like the Deer piece was, you know, it's sold the most but we had two pieces on our store that you know, we're holding their own, like they've sold a couple of 1000 is what up. So when you compare the two, it comes down to what level you're at with your own marketing, if you're first starting 100% I'll always encourage people to start with the platform and its platform because it allows you to focus on two key elements and that is number one phrase building and that's where 80% of someone's effort needs to be when they're starting in this industry is a phrase 100% it's like it's it's so important because no amount of great Facebook ads are gonna help sell a bad phrase but if you've got great products, bad ads will sell for you. Because when you've got a great product, it's going to sell no matter what you do. So if you're struggling to get started, phrase, it's your phrase.

Michael 

I want to throw in there and like you guys don't understand. When you get the phrase, right, your tolerance for mistakes and other areas. It just creates a buffer of safety like,  you can make mistakes on your store with your copy. With the ads, you can make all these other mistakes.

Ronnie 

Spelling and grammatical style mistakes on the actual base, the amount of times we sell stuff that has, like a spelling mistake on it, you're like.

Michael 

But it's still having a phrase right and dialed in. You can make other mistakes, and you'll live through them. Right? But like you said, Go on a Facebook ad kung fu can sell a crappy product. I mean, it's like trying to put lipstick on a pig. I mean, it's just it is not going to work. So take a take a stab here throw a dart What was your the the most revenue you generated in a day during that run?

Ronnie 

I've got a screenshot for $20,000 profit on this Sean store. I've got a screenshot for $20,000 day on our Shopify store.

Michael 

So something like 5000 bucks. Sorry. Sometimes 45,000 Yeah.

Ronnie 

But for some reason, I was like, I thought it was closer to 60. So I'm not sure.

Suhail 

Yeah, it was hard. Because that was that was profit, not revenue on short. Ah, so it was 20 on profit like GP

Michael 

Good for you guys. Man. Seriously, dude, good for you guys.

Suhail 

I'll just I'm sorry, I'll just jump in real quick, like going back on this phrase, like this one viral thing that went offline, something that, you know, I think it's really important for people to know, and I've seen a couple of comments, just because you wouldn't buy it. Like, that's not the point. You know, like, if you try to think about phrases and stuff, people really need to think about who they're selling it to and what they want to buy. Because, you know, a lot of people would miss something like this, because they go, Oh, that's not my kind of humor, or my partner wouldn't like it. But America is a huge place. Like if that's one thing we've learned over seven years, someone will buy something that you wouldn't, you just wouldn't expect. And all we need is like point 1% of the population to buy it. And you sold 30,000? Or, you know, what's the number? What's point 1% 360 million, or whatever the population is?

Michael 

I'm in Kansas, and I'm pretty sure I've got family members would probably buy.

Ronnie 

This is a massive thing. Like, if you're easily upset in this industry, there's a reason for that. It's because you've got your own beliefs, right. Like say, if you help hold so strongly those beliefs, you got to imagine that the other side of that coin is someone that holds on to beliefs in the other direction. So you have to be willing, if, if you're easily offended, it's a hard industry to crack. Because, you know, although by that taste like what the hell like I would never personally give something like that, that says, You've effectively been sleeping around for the last 30 years. Like that doesn't, that doesn't connect with you. But I'm still gonna test it because it's valuable to someone. I'm not it's not selling yourself, the devil but you're, you're, you're providing value for people when you're doing this stuff to be empathetic. You know.

Michael 

Seriously goes back to just fundamentals now. You guys dialed into an audience thought of what the audience might want, you created a product that was different than what they were probably used to seeing. It stopped the scroll. It was humor was funny. So it made them have an emotional response. And they bought I mean, you guys, you did exactly like if you were to write a playbook for how to create a winning product. I mean, you literally followed it, you're the product you created hits the formula from top to bottom. So okay, let's, let's shift gears here. We've been one for about an hour. So you guys, here's what I want to do. I want to talk a little bit about this project you got coming up, and then I want to move to some q&a. So Ronnie and Suhail have been working on a product so they just did this big run three quarters of million dollars in less than three weeks. You can tell these guys they've been around for a long time. They understand print on demand, in and out, they've tried a lot of things. They've spent probably millions of dollars of their own money and ad spend at this point. They've been working on kind of a special project that they're going to let shine on people that shine on group have early access to so this is not really been announced anywhere else. So Ronnie, you want to you want to kind of tell us a little bit about what you've got cooking over there?

Ronnie 

Yes, well, look I I've mentioned several times someone being locked in a room for the last four to six weeks just cutting all the other knives out of these videos. That's what it is. It's called the jewelry juggernaut, the profitable POD fast track, and it covers off all the elements of running a successful business in this industry, right? So it's got your scheduling spreadsheets, I've done this, there's worksheets in it. Within that spreadsheet, it's got multiple tabs between you know, your quote, development, your launch phase, the touch bit more on the quote, development, because it pulls apart the elements of a six figure winner, right? So it's got like the intro, the adjective, the recipient, the moneymaker, which is that very first part of your phrase that catches people's attention, the blend, which is that sign of pace, and then the sign off. So it puts like you've got this spreadsheet that's works out, you put in where like, what the moneymaker is what the blend is. And then you can use that spreadsheet to create so many different variations. So it really fast tracks that research phase of your business. But I thought that like good guys through like hiring staff, it's got your like, I've put in the job descriptions that we use, personally, the SRP that you need in order for these guys to operate autonomously. So there's a ton of value on that front. I had to write a list because I was like, there's no way I'm going to remember all this. I'm going to try and find Is there anything you want to add to that? Suhail while I pull this up? No, not so much. I guess it's just yeah, there's a lot of experience that's gone into it, I suppose. Like, it's not just from this, you know, little runway had, but there's a lot of, you know, there's seven years experience, like Ronnie's poured into, you know, into the last few weeks of work that he's been, he's mainly been doing it, trying to sell jewelry again. So sticking on that path. But yeah, there's a lot of content in there. It's a branded Shopify store builds, like I take people through how to actually create a branded store. What else the niche the niche research, so knowing how to get into nation, so a lot of the stuff that we see is broad stuff. So we've never had success with going Dear mom, love your daughter, we've never been able to crack that. And we've spent a lot of money trying to go after that. Where we've found the most joy is niching down. And there's a process of how we actually do that. And it's got the niche list, it's got how we break into them, how we segment down to make sure that you're, you know, got the best chance of actually breaking into something.

Michael 

So hey, I want to jump in real quick. So one of the things I've always kind of admired about Ronnie and Suhail is like these guys know how to build, like really nice looking, branded, print on demand stores, they've shared a number of their stores with me, and I'm telling you like they are freaking Pro, they one of the things I really like about your course is you spend time talking through the Shopify side of things. And it's specifically for print on demand. And very a lot of that out there, at least it's not a 16 is kind of what you share in the course. So I really liked that about the course. So they walk through, like how to come up with cool business name, how to do a cool business logo, how to set up your Shopify store, what kind of apps you want, the conversion elements on the store, and all that stuff. So anyway, go ahead, but I just wanted to throw it out there that if you want to take your Shopify game to the next level, or you want to start a Shopify store, this is a great, great way to get started.

Ronnie 

And look like to be fair, like that's all about the trust building. So putting someone's mind at ease when they get to your store. It's like what are the elements that I need to work on to seriously make this something that someone doesn't think twice about purchasing from right. So that's, that's one part of it. But there's, I think there's, there's over five and a half hours worth of content on there, that I've put in there. And it's it's no fluff, like I've, I've distilled it down as much as possible. Like they're not super long videos, there's some that are longer obviously the Shopify tutorials setting that up. But when it comes down to actually, like, you know, the quote development or stuff like that, like it is to the point and this is what we do, and this is what you'll get, like, follow this system and this is the outcome, you know. So it's I'm not shooting one two hour videos, just putting this continent you know the phrase research like, you know, sorting social or Pinterest and stuff like that. Like, I don't spend a lot of time on that I go through and go, this is what we're looking for as we're doing this, look for these things on these products and use that part on your phrase. So I'd say it's to the point it's getting you through this learning curve without bombarding you with so much information that you get process analysis.

Michael 

I went through I haven't gone through the whole thing, but I will tell you like I'm even taking notes when I go through it and picking up something so these guys have something to teach everybody. So anyways, what's what's it called? Again? jewelry?

Ronnie 

The jewelry juggernaut Oh, yeah,

Michael 

What is the tagline? Again, we may have to work on this tagline a little bit.

Ronnie 

The Profitable POD Fast Track. Yeah. So I think one thing that we didn't cover is that within that course, we go through the case study of, you know, that viral campaign that we had a Christmas, right. So the viral ads set up. And literally, that's the ad set on that review with that we use, you know, that we've been using for years because of works, right. And it goes against everything that everybody else in the industry says like, there's so much misinformation out there in terms of how do we run a Facebook ads business. And if you're not careful, you fall down the trap of being a brand builder, and not an internet marketer. And we're an internet marketer, first and foremost. So what I'm saying is like the brand builders, they start by, you know, awareness, they want to get their products out in front of people, they get the middle of funnel that, you know, that shows people that have watched a certain portion of their videos. And then they asked us out, we are in the business of asking for the sale, immediately. We stop people in their tracks, getting them like that, take that action and purchase. So we take you through that process, like in the case study how we came up with the phrase, how we launched it, what that launch process looked like, what the scout process looked like, all that kind of stuff. We were spending over $20,000 a day on ads at one point, and I was like, wow, we're literally buying a car every day at the moment.

Michael 

Yeah, by the way, I remember when I was doing that. And I was like scared to death that like my electricity or something was gonna go out, like my mind was I had like catastrophic thinking going on. I'm like, Oh my gosh, if the electricity goes out, while I'm in the middle of running these ads, and the way I ran my ads were kind of risky. I mean, I had a bunch of campaigns going that weren't profitable for me, and I had to shut them all down. So it was risky spending that kind of money. But yeah.

Ronnie 

Sorry to cut you off. So I've got a module in there on how to handle sudden sudden success. Like what you need to be aware of cash flow management at a reduced fees, all that kind of stuff. I've pulled some strings for a couple of friends of ours, a couple of friends, Dan Nicus is going has a lesson in there about the eight the best email flows that you can possibly have for your store when you're starting. And Nick has also dropped in and he's doing a full Google ads. You know, step by step. This is how you do the Google Shopping. This is what you need to do. It's been doing our Google ads. And you know, I love it. Because I just print money. So they're two, they're two bonus. Module modules is the Google ads and email flows with Dan nicus. Yes, yeah, I

Michael 

dig it. Man, this is gonna be Dude, I'm excited for this. Myself. Like I said, I have seen some of the course. But even I was taking note. So this is going to be pretty cool, stop. Let's shift to let's do like 10 or 15, a q&a, and then start to wrap this up. So yesterday when I made the post original post, some people had some questions in there. So let me give me a sec. I'm going to find those. And then anybody else has questions, start asking them now, in this particular post, there's a little bit of a delay between us and you. It's about a 30 second delay. So just start asking those now. And I'm going to come back to them in a minute. And I'll try to put those on the screen here as I get to them. So Ronnie, I see that you kind of went in here, tried to answer a bunch of them. Let's see. John wants to know how you're so handsome.

Ronnie 

That's a lot of mirror time.

Suhail 

I think Ron gets a haircut every second week.

Michael 

So a lot of time working on that. So here's one what's your process for ad copy? Do you keep it simple or complex?

Ronnie 

Keep it simple

Ronnie 

And if you want these golden nuggets to and I distill a lot of these down on TikTokinto like 3 second - minute long videos, and I'm dropping this stuff all the time. And one of the ones I did recently was ad copy. And it's like, how do we again, what you want to do is stop people in their tracks, we're doing everything to get a reaction from people. And every, every step we take in that is, is helping Facebook recognize that this is a relevant product to this person. So in the first line of copy, we always ask a question on a scale of 10 How true is this? You know, as something more emotive, it's like, how God, I can't even think of something right now. But I gave you examples in that little video. So how what's what's an opener that you often use, that gets people to respond?

Suhail 

Well, lately, we've been just going super simple, even simpler than that, like just, you know, make a memorable gift, you know, do you need a memorable gift for a loved one? So sort of like, Oh, do I have something coming up that I need to buy, you know, a present for or just because I get people in that buying mindset really quickly. And yet a super simple ad copy, because we're always conscious of trying to keep the, we still put a link in the actual ad copy instead of just using the shop now buttons. And we're super mindful having that high up above the fold or above the, you know, click down more button. And I think the the big thing about ad copy is like, yes, it plays a part. But realistically, if you're, if you get the ad creative, right, and the the quote, and the design is right, no one's reading your ad copy anyway. You know they're looking at the image, people are visual. And if they see something they like, they're going to click on it, they're not going to copy, you can only do so much for you, it's not going to make someone buy your product. So I will just be focusing too much attention on ad copy, changing copies, I think keep the ad copy simple. And you know, find something else to worry about, which is your design and your phrase and creatively use make sure that ad creative pops to stop people and it's clearly what your quote is, is clearly, you know, readable in the Facebook newsfeed.

Ronnie 

I guess like, again, this is where sometimes to highlight different things like with that that guy have not touched started testing what he's doing. I've always like if it's $1 piece, it's like, How old were you when you had your daughter? So it's an emotive reaction that people are going they want to share that information like it's for whatever reason, it makes people go, yeah, that they enter the content. Anyway, the next slide. So again, keep it about the first part, you want that link in there, and just that call to action. And the last line, I, I always go back to this because I want as much engagement as possible. It's like, Do you know someone who would love this, because what that does, it's as son of while asking for them to tag someone in it. And again, increase the reach that you're getting on that initial piece. So it's just a straight line copy, like we've got. Again, as Suhail said, like, it doesn't matter what is written in that copy. You could you could be insulting someone, if they want that piece, they're clicking through, and they're going to buy it. And so long as you've got the trust factors built in your site, you're going to be making those sales and account again, I wanted to say before, you're going to remember, we're not selling stuff we want to sell like, you know, nine times out of 10. We're not selling stuff we want to sell, we are selling stuff, what people need to buy. And you've got to remember that like and that means that the higher the passion, the higher that people have an emotional response to it. So if you're getting upset by you know that that cringy dirty innuendo here, we put on that hunting piece, then perhaps it's like, well, what's the other side of that? Like, how can we exploit that as well so that therein lies the biggest opportunity for keeping your ad copies super simple. Directly do what you want give one topic. One other thing that I'd add into that is like, if you're targeting son or daughter, call it out in that ad copy. I don't know for a fact that I kind of feel that that's it helps Facebook also optimize it and put it in front of the right people. So like if you're calling it daughters, which you can't really do on Facebook, like in your targeting, you want to go You're going to want to in a way that it's specifically for daughter, so Facebook puts out to the girls, not the men, you know, so you can target by sex, or things one through. But you know what I'm saying?

Michael 

Yeah, man, that's good stuff. That's gold right there. So I'm gonna, I'm going to keep going here, we got a lot of questions. So bear with me. Someone asks, I think you can have all the best designs, you can make them cry all day. But if your target markets off, they won't buy to me, Senator $50,000? is a question that how do you target the audience? Besides, you know, just men, women 21 plus married relationship, etc? So do you have any quick advice for how people can improve their targeting on their ads?

Ronnie 

You're thinking too much, because the it's the phrase that pays. So I mentioned that the other day, and it's 100%. True, it's, you have to have something people want. It's not about your targeting, like once you've by I've got a process for niching down and knowing that you've got a target that's addressable within Facebook that you can actually tag, once you've got that that part of the job is done. So is that and that's in our ad set up is like you got one broad ad and one specific, but it does not matter. If you don't have a product that people want, you need to get your head around that you need a phrase that makes them cry or buy, like laugh or cry, because then that will that is what you're focused on. And you've got to be willing to go not have your own strong opinions of I don't, I think that there's a lot of great content out there. Because we have like if you want to see amazing designs, have a look at our archive, like styles got tons of them. And but for whatever reason, they've not needed in that moment, right. And we know our ad sell, like we've just done that 730 in three weeks. And we've sold, you know, done multiple six and seven figure businesses over the years, based on products that people want. Right? So when it comes down to targeting, it's it's secondary to having something that you've created, that is being put in front of people that actually want to say, and if you can tag them on Facebook, and it connects with them, they want them. So sorry, I'll just jump in real quick there. There's a there's an element of truth to that like, and I think it comes down to your ad account and just testing different targeting methods, like don't get stuck into one thing, because there's some people that have great success, just targeting 21 plus married and that's it. But then if that's not working for you, then then start targeting, you know, precise interests, even if the interest isn't related, you can have success by targeting married men who like hunting, even though it's a broad wife piece, you know, so it's, there's a, there's a lot of scope there. We've found what works for us, it might not work for everyone. But, you know, again, I think the main point is it's the phrase that's going to work, you just need to do enough testing in your ads to work out what's working with your pixel and your ad account. It could be super generic, broad, married. That's it. And if that's what works for you, then you've hit the jackpot, you know, but test enough different variations of targeting in your testing for each design to find that, you know, to any form that works with that specific launch, I guess.

Michael 

So I got another question here. Someone asked how they can get a Suhail for themselves.

Suhail 

Yeah, I don't know why I'm, like I said, I look in the shadows. But yeah, I don't think anything I do is like, super specialty, if I was to say, you know what, what I do here, we touched on before I think about what the person who I want to buy, whatever we're selling, whether it's mugs, shirts, you know, it's their passion, or it's what the message they want to convey, you know, when we're talking about jewelry. And that's it, like, do enough research, look at enough quotes, see what sells piece it together in your own mind if you don't have a good, you know, memory where you remember phrases and all that sort of stuff. You should see our IDs boards like there is literally just any snippet 1000 things like we go through a process where we just chuck everything in there, and then we come back through and refine We're fine, we're fine. And and the more you do that the closer you get to, you know, hitting your wishes, and you get better in your process of coming up with phrases quickly. And I guess that's, you know, that'd be my advice. Yeah, you don't need one of me. You can you can become like, there's nothing special about what I do.

Michael 

So another question, do

Ronnie 

That's rubbish mate. You 100% need Suhail. How do you find them? You need to network though. And that's where you got to be willing to do. Like the amount of people that I know, because I'm willing to just get out of our comfort zone and talk to people. You know, I know a ton of great people, because of that willingness to have a chat. So it's a conversation, like, if you're going to be a video shop anymore, and you can't, then we'll do it on Netflix. But if you're going to the local store, and you connect with someone start talking about what you're doing, like if you start talking about that you're into internet marketing, it may pick the right person's curiosity guy. I like that. So and you start to that you start pushing people into this world, or, or inviting them into a world, I guess. And you'll like if you connect with them, and you can feel that definitely sense that there's a yin to the Yang sort of thing. Explore.

Michael 

Alright, so we're gonna do three more questions here. Do you use one pixel for each niche or one pixel? For each? For example, platform monitor? I don't understand this. You use one pixel for each niche?

Ronnie 

Yeah. Yeah. So obviously, there's a refinement process going on at the moment with iOS 14. But every every few minutes, I'm saying how talking to Zack needs a domain. And I thought it's the exact same one as before, but we're getting several different domains organized on the platform. And they've all got their different pixels, right? Every niche has a different pixel platform. Different pixel different niches. Yeah.

Michael 

Okay, sweet. I'm gonna jump over to the chat questions now. So this episode is at the Joe Rogan level, this might have been when Okay, so hang on.

Michael 

All right. Hey, back. Here in the thing, hang on. Give me a second. We're gonna do two more quick questions. So David, is testing Facebook ads? Do you run conversion or engagement?

Ronnie 

Just conversion.

Michael 

Yeah, that's pretty standard. for everybody. I think Yeah. Let's see what else. Use any audience this will be a good one to use any audience search and targeting tool such as Connect IO or audience or or Facebook ads tracking tool, or I'm going to add to this audience insights.

Ronnie 

We obviously, Audience Insights, when we're getting started. We've been in the industry so long now that we know what's targetable on Facebook, right? So occasionally, you go back in there, try and find new targets. Sometimes disappointed to find that your your favorite targets have been taken out of there for whatever reason. I'm a bit of a lazy marketer, like I really want to be at the curse that Kirsten is any size nine, but I've always shied away from saying his damn name. He's helped a lot like that back cost cap add like he coached me through a lot of that like in the setup, how to how to put that together. Like he's, he's an absolute weapon when it comes to Facebook, marketing, but it's that level that I want to be access, like, I want as broad an audience as possible to be selling this into and I want to hit every person within that. That's like with specific ads, like obviously, you're trying to find different small audience, audiences that may not have been hit before just to you know, try and find different seed audiences that you're going to scale. But I've not used Connect IO or audience, I don't even know what audiences.

Suhail 

Yeah, I think like, you know, the heart of this question goes back to just overdoing your ads like you complicating it and probably as deep as we go as audience insights and just using, you know, suggested interest targeting. And, you know, if you get to the point where you're scaling and you're running out of sales, like then you can start looking for other other hidden interests, I guess with other tools, but to start with, yeah.

Ronnie 

There's gonna be a ton of pieces that sell one two on the first day and you never get another sale on them. There's got to be something Just a five to 10. No matter what you do, you can't, you can't learn it as you got to be willing to move on. You got to go right once a tip my threshold for what a profitable ad campaign is, move on to the next piece, have a system, follow our system that makes sure that you've got more pieces going into that mix to find the true winners that you can't kill, but you can make as many mistakes as humanly possible. And that still things still sells. You need to test more designs.

Michael 

Yeah, and you've guys, you have a whole module on how to do this inside the course to where you get right into audience insights and all that. So dude's your to my favorite people. I'm glad you you're with us. I'm glad you're able to join us today. I definitely would love to have you back on. Appreciate having me on. Thanks so much. And hope everybody has a fantastic weekend. Take care everybody.

Ronnie 

Thank you everybody. Thanks, guys.

Suhail 

Thanks, Michael.